Rehash of an old post with some new info from the new 10k
=======================
starviego
(6/2/02)
According to the Littleton Fire Department dispatch tape(7840), unit FD E13 responded to a report of a fire at the 8000 block of South Wadsworth between Ken Caryl and Chatfield at 11:20. I haven't run across any relevant interviews with the responding FD personnel, though the responding Arapahoe County Sheriff's Office Bomb Squad was interviewed(7693, 7713).
They described seeing a 25'X25' burned area, and finding TWO backpacks on scene, one burned and one nearly complete, along with various bomb-making components, including a "delay switch", whatever that is. But, just like the cafteria bombs, they pointedly did not mention finding anything that might be construed as a detonation device, leading one to the conclusion that this "bomb" was meant to be set off manually via pipe bomb, and that the alarm clock and the battery recovered were more for show than anything else.
Who exactly reported this device to the Fire Department is also a mystery. JCSO Guerra(7820) reports he receved info from the command post at 12:15 that a "surveying team" near the intersection of Wadsworth and Coal MIne "encountered" a backpack, moved it, it "exploded", and started a small fire. Unfortunately there was no further attempt made to identlfy or interview this "surveying team", which might lead suspicious minds to conclude that their main purpose was to plant these devices rather than to do any actual surveying.
Or perhaps whoever was planting the bombs was interrupted by someone, which caused him to drop the other backpack (which was to have been placed elsewhere, if indeed this was another "bomb") and flee from the scene. A Sheridan Police Detective Wheeldon(10222) tells us that during the search of the area:
"Officers detained an unknown white male who was found in the area inside of a drainage pipe. He was identified by the Colorado State Patrol Officers and later released."
Of course the IOs don't tell us who this person was and why he was hiding in a drainage pipe in the middle of the day. Transient? Illegal Immigrant? Or was it a member of the gang known as the Trench Coat Mafia? On page 7092 student Jamie Rubidoux told the IOs that the mother of a friend-Dana Remming-saw a DAVID CARAVAN next to the area where a 'diversionary bomb' had blown-up. But once again, there was no apparent attempt made to follow-up this lead. Dana Remy(sic)(7072) is not asked about it.
There is no question that Caravan himself was a TCMer: "...leads indicated that David Caravan was a 'Trench Coat Mafia' member and that he had access to firearms at his residence." Perhaps this lead came from teacher Dan Fleener, who said Caravan boasted of having guns at his residence(5558 ), though he adamantly denied ever owning so much as a BB gun when the IOs came-a-calling. He was expelled from CHS either in Oct/Nov of '98(8671) or Jan/Feb of '99(6219), and was previously suspended for threatening staff member Mona Madden, who said he was "strange and intimidating." He had told her and an aide to "watch your back", and "they didn't know who they were dealing with."(5733) He also admitted to the IOs that "...he personally had been arrested for false reporting which involved him pulling the fire alarm at CHS on a dare from a fellow student."(6221) School Disciplinarian Peter Horvath called Caravan a druggie(5708 ), and in the next sentence said "(Redacted) was capable of doing something like this"(talking about the killings, presumably).
And it is clear that police considered Caravan a suspect at one point: Det. Jackson(8671): "I spoke to school personnel who gave possible associate names of David Caravan.... and Eric Dutro, who is not currently a student." What was Caravan's alibi? "He stated that after shopping at King Soopers, he saw a friend of his at the Burger King restaurant located at 6797 West Ottawa Avenue. He indentified this friend as being Jonathan Schlott... while at Burger King, they saw some cop cars drive by very fast towards CHS...." Unfortunatley for Caravan, Schlott does not corraborate his presence(7119); nor does Josh Churchman(6254) who says he was with Schlott during lunch.
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randy
the two surveyors were working on the survey for the new grocery store. the report was that they moved the bag, and heard a whirring sound. then, moments later the bomb went off. neither of the two were injured.
i imagine that the bomb details have been withheld to keep others from copying the design. i have heard that a radio controlled car was involved, perhaps as an activator, but that has not been confirmed. a number of people call in on the 911 tapes and report the fire and approx. location to the police.
what happened to the other diversion bomb that was placed near pierce and elmhurst? did it detonate? i have always wondered about that detail, and don't remember reading about it in the pages.
randy
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Mika
It was a complete surprise for me that there actually was 2 diversionary bomb's. And iv'e always wondered why the diversionary bomb(s) wen't off but the cafeteria ones didn't asuming that they were of the same design. One could asume that the cafeteria bomb's were for show and nothing else. Who knows.
---------------
SuperSaiyan Fan
Wow, I didn't realize that there were possibly two diversionary bombs that were placed.
------------
starviego
Randy, thanks for the info on the surveying team. Apparently they were legitimate. What is this 'report' you mention that referred to a 'whirring sound'?
Another diversion bomb near Pierce and Elmhurst? That's the first I have heard of it. Where did you learn it from?
Mika, SuperSaiyanFan: I can't say for sure that there WERE two bombs--only that two backpacks were left at the scene, both of which MIGHT have carried bombs(the interviewed bomb-squad members were rather cagey about that).
But now Randy says there was another diversionary bomb placed at Pierce and Elmhurst, so I don't know....stay tuned for updates as we get them....
-starvo
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Nesta
Why bother with a diversionary bomb? The entire police force is hardly going to swarm to a patch of grass on fire. Would it not make more sense to put a diversionary bomb somewhere it will cause damage or injury like a mall or somewhere public? And why such a small bomb?
The cafeteria bomb was never going to explode from the start, even if the timer or whatever worked. Looking at the design, the gas tanks explode, rupturing the propane tank. No way is that going to work, propane tanks are designed not to explode like that. Those things are bullet proof (as E and D later found out)
-------------------
FactQuest
The diversionary bomb would draw at least a fire engine, and maybe a cop car. It would confuse the emergency response team. Maybe a bomb in a shopping mall or something would have had greater effect, but H&K had focused their hate on Columbine and LE.
We don't have real good info on the exact nature of the cafeteria bomb. Or, perhaps a better way to say it, we have conflicting info, and some obvious hole of no info, on the makeup of the propane bomb.
We don't know who placed it there, the video is oh-so-conveniently missing the crucial few minutes.
Do we even know *for sure* if it was one or two bombs? I don't think so.
Was there a timer? Was it set for 11:17? Was it wired incorrectly as laid out in the Anarchists Cookbook?
Could it have gone off? We don't know.
Did H&K at least think that it would go off? Seem likely.
Can a bomb using a propane tank of that size be made to explode? Absolutely.
-------------
randy
eric lived on elmhurst, in columbine knolls south.
the green belt backed to his old house (they rented) and had bike trails in it. the path that they set the diversion bomb by was just off wadsworth, about 3 blocks to the west.
they were very familiar with this path. dylan played there as a child. they ran missions in this area, and set off pipe bombs under the highway in a culvert.(this last part is somewhat speculation, as the exact culvert location has not been identified).
the harris family purchased a home about 3 blocks south, and easy walking distance to the park. we lived on vance st., between their home and the park, about 1 1/2 blocks south of the home they rented on elmhurst.
they were seen that morning walking up the path, and that was reported to the police after columbine.
just some details i thought you might want to know.
randy
=====================
New info:
(979)
Police radio reported another bomb at Kipling Ave and Chatfield Ave.(compare to Randy's report of another bomb at Pierce and Elmhurst above)
Lynn Remy(Reming)(22496)
Mother of a daughter who was a friend of Jamie Rubidoux, "had seen David Caravan run from one of the diversion bombs."
(23122)
Doris Lynn Remy(Dana Remy's mom) interviewed on 6-3-99. "She stated that she observed a white male, approximately 23 years old, running down South 7700 block of Vance Street; she stated that he was dressed in black and that he grinned at her." Though she fails to pick Caravan out of a photo line-up.
Shawn Lee Mazotti(19503)
Sees a dark green sedan. early '90s, leave scene after explosion which caused fire. Cops say it was a '98 Dodge Stratus driven by "witness Thornton".
(19667)
"Witness Thornton" remembers it differently.
"Mike Thornton, passerby, sees explosion on S. Wadsworth at 11:15am on 4-20. 'Thornton' walked into area and contacted white male, high school age, wearing dark baseball cap. Subject... had crawled out of culvert after the explosion. Subject said there had been 2 backpacks left against the fence by a survey crew. Thornton saw no evidence of a crew working in the area." (He called 911 and helped put out the fire.)
[Comment: If someone left the scene in a hurry, it wasn't this guy. Who planted the bomb? The mysterious 'survey crew'? The kid? What was a high schooler doing in a culvert in the middle of the school day? Was he TCMer David Caravan, as one eyewitness indicated? Why didn't the people make an effort to track down this 'survey crew"? The mystery only grows.]
=======================
starviego
(6/2/02)
According to the Littleton Fire Department dispatch tape(7840), unit FD E13 responded to a report of a fire at the 8000 block of South Wadsworth between Ken Caryl and Chatfield at 11:20. I haven't run across any relevant interviews with the responding FD personnel, though the responding Arapahoe County Sheriff's Office Bomb Squad was interviewed(7693, 7713).
They described seeing a 25'X25' burned area, and finding TWO backpacks on scene, one burned and one nearly complete, along with various bomb-making components, including a "delay switch", whatever that is. But, just like the cafteria bombs, they pointedly did not mention finding anything that might be construed as a detonation device, leading one to the conclusion that this "bomb" was meant to be set off manually via pipe bomb, and that the alarm clock and the battery recovered were more for show than anything else.
Who exactly reported this device to the Fire Department is also a mystery. JCSO Guerra(7820) reports he receved info from the command post at 12:15 that a "surveying team" near the intersection of Wadsworth and Coal MIne "encountered" a backpack, moved it, it "exploded", and started a small fire. Unfortunately there was no further attempt made to identlfy or interview this "surveying team", which might lead suspicious minds to conclude that their main purpose was to plant these devices rather than to do any actual surveying.
Or perhaps whoever was planting the bombs was interrupted by someone, which caused him to drop the other backpack (which was to have been placed elsewhere, if indeed this was another "bomb") and flee from the scene. A Sheridan Police Detective Wheeldon(10222) tells us that during the search of the area:
"Officers detained an unknown white male who was found in the area inside of a drainage pipe. He was identified by the Colorado State Patrol Officers and later released."
Of course the IOs don't tell us who this person was and why he was hiding in a drainage pipe in the middle of the day. Transient? Illegal Immigrant? Or was it a member of the gang known as the Trench Coat Mafia? On page 7092 student Jamie Rubidoux told the IOs that the mother of a friend-Dana Remming-saw a DAVID CARAVAN next to the area where a 'diversionary bomb' had blown-up. But once again, there was no apparent attempt made to follow-up this lead. Dana Remy(sic)(7072) is not asked about it.
There is no question that Caravan himself was a TCMer: "...leads indicated that David Caravan was a 'Trench Coat Mafia' member and that he had access to firearms at his residence." Perhaps this lead came from teacher Dan Fleener, who said Caravan boasted of having guns at his residence(5558 ), though he adamantly denied ever owning so much as a BB gun when the IOs came-a-calling. He was expelled from CHS either in Oct/Nov of '98(8671) or Jan/Feb of '99(6219), and was previously suspended for threatening staff member Mona Madden, who said he was "strange and intimidating." He had told her and an aide to "watch your back", and "they didn't know who they were dealing with."(5733) He also admitted to the IOs that "...he personally had been arrested for false reporting which involved him pulling the fire alarm at CHS on a dare from a fellow student."(6221) School Disciplinarian Peter Horvath called Caravan a druggie(5708 ), and in the next sentence said "(Redacted) was capable of doing something like this"(talking about the killings, presumably).
And it is clear that police considered Caravan a suspect at one point: Det. Jackson(8671): "I spoke to school personnel who gave possible associate names of David Caravan.... and Eric Dutro, who is not currently a student." What was Caravan's alibi? "He stated that after shopping at King Soopers, he saw a friend of his at the Burger King restaurant located at 6797 West Ottawa Avenue. He indentified this friend as being Jonathan Schlott... while at Burger King, they saw some cop cars drive by very fast towards CHS...." Unfortunatley for Caravan, Schlott does not corraborate his presence(7119); nor does Josh Churchman(6254) who says he was with Schlott during lunch.
-------------
randy
the two surveyors were working on the survey for the new grocery store. the report was that they moved the bag, and heard a whirring sound. then, moments later the bomb went off. neither of the two were injured.
i imagine that the bomb details have been withheld to keep others from copying the design. i have heard that a radio controlled car was involved, perhaps as an activator, but that has not been confirmed. a number of people call in on the 911 tapes and report the fire and approx. location to the police.
what happened to the other diversion bomb that was placed near pierce and elmhurst? did it detonate? i have always wondered about that detail, and don't remember reading about it in the pages.
randy
--------------
Mika
It was a complete surprise for me that there actually was 2 diversionary bomb's. And iv'e always wondered why the diversionary bomb(s) wen't off but the cafeteria ones didn't asuming that they were of the same design. One could asume that the cafeteria bomb's were for show and nothing else. Who knows.
---------------
SuperSaiyan Fan
Wow, I didn't realize that there were possibly two diversionary bombs that were placed.
------------
starviego
Randy, thanks for the info on the surveying team. Apparently they were legitimate. What is this 'report' you mention that referred to a 'whirring sound'?
Another diversion bomb near Pierce and Elmhurst? That's the first I have heard of it. Where did you learn it from?
Mika, SuperSaiyanFan: I can't say for sure that there WERE two bombs--only that two backpacks were left at the scene, both of which MIGHT have carried bombs(the interviewed bomb-squad members were rather cagey about that).
But now Randy says there was another diversionary bomb placed at Pierce and Elmhurst, so I don't know....stay tuned for updates as we get them....
-starvo
-------------
Nesta
Why bother with a diversionary bomb? The entire police force is hardly going to swarm to a patch of grass on fire. Would it not make more sense to put a diversionary bomb somewhere it will cause damage or injury like a mall or somewhere public? And why such a small bomb?
The cafeteria bomb was never going to explode from the start, even if the timer or whatever worked. Looking at the design, the gas tanks explode, rupturing the propane tank. No way is that going to work, propane tanks are designed not to explode like that. Those things are bullet proof (as E and D later found out)
-------------------
FactQuest
The diversionary bomb would draw at least a fire engine, and maybe a cop car. It would confuse the emergency response team. Maybe a bomb in a shopping mall or something would have had greater effect, but H&K had focused their hate on Columbine and LE.
We don't have real good info on the exact nature of the cafeteria bomb. Or, perhaps a better way to say it, we have conflicting info, and some obvious hole of no info, on the makeup of the propane bomb.
We don't know who placed it there, the video is oh-so-conveniently missing the crucial few minutes.
Do we even know *for sure* if it was one or two bombs? I don't think so.
Was there a timer? Was it set for 11:17? Was it wired incorrectly as laid out in the Anarchists Cookbook?
Could it have gone off? We don't know.
Did H&K at least think that it would go off? Seem likely.
Can a bomb using a propane tank of that size be made to explode? Absolutely.
-------------
randy
eric lived on elmhurst, in columbine knolls south.
the green belt backed to his old house (they rented) and had bike trails in it. the path that they set the diversion bomb by was just off wadsworth, about 3 blocks to the west.
they were very familiar with this path. dylan played there as a child. they ran missions in this area, and set off pipe bombs under the highway in a culvert.(this last part is somewhat speculation, as the exact culvert location has not been identified).
the harris family purchased a home about 3 blocks south, and easy walking distance to the park. we lived on vance st., between their home and the park, about 1 1/2 blocks south of the home they rented on elmhurst.
they were seen that morning walking up the path, and that was reported to the police after columbine.
just some details i thought you might want to know.
randy
=====================
New info:
(979)
Police radio reported another bomb at Kipling Ave and Chatfield Ave.(compare to Randy's report of another bomb at Pierce and Elmhurst above)
Lynn Remy(Reming)(22496)
Mother of a daughter who was a friend of Jamie Rubidoux, "had seen David Caravan run from one of the diversion bombs."
(23122)
Doris Lynn Remy(Dana Remy's mom) interviewed on 6-3-99. "She stated that she observed a white male, approximately 23 years old, running down South 7700 block of Vance Street; she stated that he was dressed in black and that he grinned at her." Though she fails to pick Caravan out of a photo line-up.
Shawn Lee Mazotti(19503)
Sees a dark green sedan. early '90s, leave scene after explosion which caused fire. Cops say it was a '98 Dodge Stratus driven by "witness Thornton".
(19667)
"Witness Thornton" remembers it differently.
"Mike Thornton, passerby, sees explosion on S. Wadsworth at 11:15am on 4-20. 'Thornton' walked into area and contacted white male, high school age, wearing dark baseball cap. Subject... had crawled out of culvert after the explosion. Subject said there had been 2 backpacks left against the fence by a survey crew. Thornton saw no evidence of a crew working in the area." (He called 911 and helped put out the fire.)
[Comment: If someone left the scene in a hurry, it wasn't this guy. Who planted the bomb? The mysterious 'survey crew'? The kid? What was a high schooler doing in a culvert in the middle of the school day? Was he TCMer David Caravan, as one eyewitness indicated? Why didn't the people make an effort to track down this 'survey crew"? The mystery only grows.]
