Automatic
A fully automatic weapon is one that fires two or more rounds with just one trigger-pull. The weapon ceases firing when pressure is taken off the trigger or when the ammo runs out. This is in contrast to a semi-automatic weapon that fires only one round for each pull of the trigger.
Most modern assault rifles used by military and police can be converted from semi-automatic to fully automatic with a turn of a small lever on the weapon. Fully automatic weapons are illegal for civilians to own, though allegedly one can buy 'kits' that can turn some models into full automatic.
Did one of the gunmen have a fully automatic weapon, whether a machine pistol or a rifle? I would hasten to add that full automatic gunfire is quite distinct, as any one who has heard it can tell you. You can distinguish it even amongst numerous bursts of semi-automatic fire being shot at the same time. Thus I credit the numerous witnesses who heard automatic fire:
1) Jayson Autenrieth(670 and EP 25-13): Thought one of the gunmean was firing a fully automatic weapon, "because of how fast the gun was firing."
2) Dick Strange, Clement Park worker(1194):
"Strange then saw one guy drop his trench coat, pull out two weapons, and start firing Strange was postive the weapon this individual fired was fully automatic."
3) John Ungerland(1698 ): Thought he heard automatic weapons fire while in Leawood Park.
4) Sarah DeBoer(2812): Sees H&K at the west end of the main hallway. Klebold saw her and shot in her direction.
"She stated she thought it was an automatic gun because the shots were rapid fire."
5) Patrick Kelly(5002): Hears what he thinks is an automatic weapon.
6) Erin Coxey(5666): Heard Automatic fire.
"I(IO) asked her if she thought it was automatic fire and she said yes."
7) Tim Williams, locksmith for JeffCo Schools(6026): One suspect firing automatic.
"Mr. Williams believes the weapon was an automatic, because it sprayed the doors."
8 ) Cameron Witt(6033):
"Cameron stated he thinks the gun was an automatic as it sounded like it was shooting faster than you could pull the trigger."
9) DPD Officer Gutierrez(8010):
"We came under heavy automatic weapons fire again from the library area...."
and
"They were informed that multiple suspects were in possession of automatic weapons."
10) DPD Officer Pedigo:
"Dispatch advised automatic gun fire with students shot."
11) Denver Metro SWAT Officer Harry Bloodworth(8337): Hears shots from library or west hallway.
It "...sounded like automatic weapons fire..."
and
"...I thought it was automatic weapons fire but its hard to tell."
12) ACSO Nelson(8802):
"I then heard a burst of automatic weapons fire of 5-10 rounds, a pause, a small burst of 2-3 rounds, a pause, and then a long burst of 10-20 rounds." (It is unclear whether he meant this to be police or suspect fire)
13) Makai Hall(8888 ):
"...Dylan had a shotgun and he also had, what he described as a hand-held assault gun similar to an UZI, which he believed was possibly fully automatic but he wasn't certain.... he felt the rounds were so fast that it made him believe it was a auto handgun."
14) Peggy Dodd, teacher(8896):
"Peggy stated that the shots she heard were very fast, as if they had come from a 'machine gun.' She stated she remembers thinking that these guys had machine guns."
15) Pat McDuffy, loose-lipped TCMer(10786): Says Perry was at the school with an automatic gun downstairs by a door shooting outside.
[Note: I have attempted to include in this list only those references that referred to possible automatic fire by the suspects. Other references in the 11K refer to automatic fire by a few of the first responders( O'Shea, Manwaring, etc.) but are not included here.]
There is no evidence that the Tec-9 or the Hi-Point rifle were illegally modified to fire in the "rock and roll" mode.
Thus the above eye- and ear- witnesses, if correct, point to a fifth weapon and hence a third suspect. But we already knew that, didn't we? So this post is just another nail in the coffin of the official story.
Can you spell- 'AK' ? (or more likely 'SKS', the Chinese-made version sold here in the US)
----------------------------
"Let the Truth be out, and let the chips fall where they may"
randy
(8/5/02 9:38 pm)
sorry, there was no sound on the videos.
any sound you heard was dubbed in as special effects.
in addition, the comment abou police only shooting at specific targets is one of the major points.
these police fired at no targets or at unidentified targets. they fired into locked rooms in the library. they fired down the main hall of the school at nothing. this was cover fire to protect themselves.
let me be very clear. gardner apparently fired at eric and dylan. the denver swat team members fired at nothing. nothing.
they had no targets. they had no shooters in their sights. they fired to protect themselves.
facts. facts.
it is in the testimony and in the ballistics evidence.
don't forget, according to the jeffco timeline, eric and dylan were dead when many of the swat rounds were fired.
denver swat fired into the library, the north library door, the window of the library that looked into a closed room, the main hall of the school, and into the wall of the building.
in the one supported situation where eric and dylan did actually exchange gunfire with denver swat, the swat team members fired into the windows of the library without having eric and dylan as targets.
why do you think the police have kept this secret for so long. training failed. officer safety was a priority.
the children did not matter.
if they did, why would you fire your automatic weapon into a school with no identified target. why would you lay down cover fire to protect yourself into a school full of innocent children.
randy
Catnip20
Thank you Randy for clearing that up. That is actually pretty disgusting that they would put sound effects on the video, the terror on their faces was bad enough, fake sounds of panic did not need to be added.
starviego
(8/6/02 7:51 pm)
Nesta: Good point about the Tec-9 being uncontrollable at full auto. If it had a nasty upward kick to begin with, this may explain why so many bullets wound up in the ceiling, and why there were so few casualties where auto fire was thought to have been used(outside, hallway, library). It may also explain why witnesses reported the Tec-9 being gripped with two hands at times.
Kestrel: That number of bullets from the Final Report sounds way low for both parties, but that's just my gut instinct.
Catnip: Where is FQ's Library Alarm Archived post located at?
Randy: What is your source for there being no sound on the video? If the sound was "dubbed in", then you essentially have 'journalists' making up the evidence(because that's what it was presented as). Or maybe the sound track was legit and the video was "dubbed in as special effect". Who knows?
As far as any police fire post-12:08, the only reference I have come acroos is 4 "shock/lock" shotgun rounds being fired intermittantly at door locks. None of the interviews with those police who admit to dicharging firearms referred to firing after 12:08. They fired a bunch of rounds during the rescue of Castaldo and they fired more while rescueing Hochalter, Graves, and Kirklin. Did they fire any during the rescue of Ireland at about 2:30?
However, I have read media accounts of firing occurring throughout the afternoon. Is that your source?
"The Truth is out there"
hi,
the police fired when they brought the fire truck up to the sw doors to extract rachel and richie.
this was, from memory, approximately 12:30 or later.
i would have to look the times up, but many rounds were fired after eric and dylan were reportedly dead.
quite embarassing for the swat team, don't you think.
this would be a fascinating line of research.
when did they fire?
were eric and dylan alive?
i will have to work on this.
randy
ps. the research and depth of knowledge on the subjects you have researched is excellent.
i wish i could get you all the el paso files and the cbi files and more. i must admit to being a little overwhelmed at this point with all of the details i have to look up and remember.
LHO
That is somethin I have never understood, what was the SWAT teams fireing at after Harris and klebold were already dead. Is it common practice to lay down cover fire when you are not being fired upon?
Someday Soon We Will All Know the truth
LHO
The library alarm post is Archive 4 page 3, about 12 down, 3rd thread. Titled: FactQuest/Knowledgeware.
starviego Re: suppression fire
Randy,
You might start with a list of 12 officers who fired weapons(or at least admit that they did) on pg8314. I don't think any of them own up to any weapons fire after about 12:15. Also, I think the rescues at the west doors and outside the cafeteria went on from about 11:50 to 12:30(can't fiond my reference, though).
LHO,
Is is NOT common practice for police to lay down cover fire, especially in a building full of kids. That's just common sense. All the suppression fire admitted to was at a particular target or was in response to fire directed at them from the building. At least that's what the 11K says.
What's interesting is that independent sources(from the media) said that gunfire was heard "long into the afternoon"(I'll have to find that cite) or words to that effect, which sheriff's spokepeople explained by saying it was 'cover fire.' But if all firing was done in respone to a clear and present danger from the suspects, as the 11K seems to say(4 shock/lock rounds excluded), why not just deny that there had been any rounds fired after 12:08 or so? The cops would have known that the school was more or less devoid of gunfire after a certain time- they were best situated to hear anything happening inside, after all! So why not just stick with the truth? The obvious conclusion is that there WERE numerous shots still being fired after H&K died. If so, the reason for this is still a mystery.
Catnip,
Thanks for the followup. Is the time of the fire alarm nailed down? I have a couple of witnesses who say it went off as early as 11:20.
FactQuest Re: suppression fire
Side note. The fire alarm time has been nailed down. I can't find it right now, but iirc it was about 11:30.
Nesta
This has been said about a hundred times.
Cops are trained to recognise targets and only fire at legitimate ones, think about it they are bound by the law, you cant just go around shooting like you're in a paintball game.
So most, if not ALL of the bullets fired by the cops have yet to be explained.
Especially the empty rifle casings found on nearby residents gutters.
Police marksmen, like any "professional" marksmen are not 'supposed' to miss, but more than a few casings were found in the gutters?
Swat teams? Covering fire? What are you joking? how can you explain covering fire in a school? (stray bullets... etc...) with no actual hits? yeah....
it doesnt take a genius but it seems a lot of you guys need a helping hand.
Nesta/Random Suppression fire
See pages 8360 and 8362. Your assumption that cops will only fire at an identified target does NOT seem to be correct.
Nesta/Random Suppression fire
That's exactly the point, it's obvious that they fired a lot of shots and didn't seem to hit anything (eg - Eric or Dylan).
Cops are not trained to just fire at random. I'm not saying that cops don't do stupid things like this, I'm just saying they are not supposed to. Especially that amount of them all at the same time.
randy why?
why?
because it is denver swat policy.
a fact.
cover fire to protect an officer is acceptable procedure.
police safety first.
wouldn't it be nice to know this kind of thing about your swat team.
is this the policy in your state or city?
you cannot find out, unless you can get a copy of their policy and procedure manual. they will state that the officers will be endangered by your knowledge of swat procedure. in truth, your children may be endangered by your lack of knowledge of swat procedure.
who is looking out for the safety of your children?
if this is the swat policy in your city, the police are not.
in denver, it is ok to fire your weapon as cover fire for self protection. even into a school full of innocent children.
one of the real lessons of columbine.
randy
kestrel Suppression Fire
I agree with Randy-JeffCo/LE did shoot at no targets at all at some points. If you read pages 8360 and 8362, you will see that blind suppression fire-with no target-was their policy. And although I can't provide refs, that also seems clear from the evidence logs. LE shot into the library from the NW door numerous times, long after H & K were last seen, long after H & K last returned fire, and long after H & K were (supposedly) dead. It wasn't because they saw-or thought they saw-perpretators. It was because they wanted to make sure no one shot back.
I kind of see this as a military response-we've taken fire, we might come under fire, so if we need to cover someone, we'll shoot. Who cares if we actually shoot at someone? Just shoot at the tree line, and we might kill some gooks/dinks/krauts/Japs who might be still alive and try to kill us. At least we'll keep their heads down.
[Disclaimer: I don't see such a response as being appropriate at Columbine. But it is a response that has been used overseas in war, and perhaps at home at places like Ruby Ridge, Waco, and Columbine.]
starviego Suppression Fire
Pxine,
Post 12:08, LE only mentions a bomb blast at 10pm or so as they attempted to move a bunch of them into an evidence trailer. Also, allegedly only one of the timed devices worked as planned--the South Wadsworth diversionary bomb, so the shots heard later could not have been bombs. Although, they could have been small bombs: firecrackers! While waiting to be rescued, Brandi Wiseman(4751) was told SWAT would be using devices(some type of explosive)
"that would sound like a firecracker or gunshots to clear the building to make sure the suspects weren't in there."
Also, LE had a very good idea early on that there were 3 or more assailants. Even after the building was officially cleared at 4pm or so, they sent SWAT teams in looking for more suspects.
Kestel,
Thanks for the page reference, but I'm with Nesta on this one: the thought of all those cops frantically firing at nothing strikes a false note with me. My gut feeling is that they're covering up something here--like they saw suspects in the hallway or cafeteria and engaged them in a firefight, or that they gunned down innocent bystanders. Brandi Wiseman, again, said that she
"heard possible firefight between SWAT and suspects(between 1:15 and 1:30pm, by my reckoning). 'She said that they then heard what she thought was the SWAT team engaging in gunfire with the suspects and a yelling at them to get down.' "
A few other students seeking shelter with the DePew group in the kitchen storage room also heard that the SWAT teams would be using 'covering fire' during the rescue. See Slater(4435), Wilson(4730), Wiseman(4751), and Dewlaney(2854). Oddlly enough, though, neither DePew nor the policeman he was on the phone with(DPDO Lietz) mention anything about cover fire.
"The Truth is out there"
A fully automatic weapon is one that fires two or more rounds with just one trigger-pull. The weapon ceases firing when pressure is taken off the trigger or when the ammo runs out. This is in contrast to a semi-automatic weapon that fires only one round for each pull of the trigger.
Most modern assault rifles used by military and police can be converted from semi-automatic to fully automatic with a turn of a small lever on the weapon. Fully automatic weapons are illegal for civilians to own, though allegedly one can buy 'kits' that can turn some models into full automatic.
Did one of the gunmen have a fully automatic weapon, whether a machine pistol or a rifle? I would hasten to add that full automatic gunfire is quite distinct, as any one who has heard it can tell you. You can distinguish it even amongst numerous bursts of semi-automatic fire being shot at the same time. Thus I credit the numerous witnesses who heard automatic fire:
1) Jayson Autenrieth(670 and EP 25-13): Thought one of the gunmean was firing a fully automatic weapon, "because of how fast the gun was firing."
2) Dick Strange, Clement Park worker(1194):
"Strange then saw one guy drop his trench coat, pull out two weapons, and start firing Strange was postive the weapon this individual fired was fully automatic."
3) John Ungerland(1698 ): Thought he heard automatic weapons fire while in Leawood Park.
4) Sarah DeBoer(2812): Sees H&K at the west end of the main hallway. Klebold saw her and shot in her direction.
"She stated she thought it was an automatic gun because the shots were rapid fire."
5) Patrick Kelly(5002): Hears what he thinks is an automatic weapon.
6) Erin Coxey(5666): Heard Automatic fire.
"I(IO) asked her if she thought it was automatic fire and she said yes."
7) Tim Williams, locksmith for JeffCo Schools(6026): One suspect firing automatic.
"Mr. Williams believes the weapon was an automatic, because it sprayed the doors."
8 ) Cameron Witt(6033):
"Cameron stated he thinks the gun was an automatic as it sounded like it was shooting faster than you could pull the trigger."
9) DPD Officer Gutierrez(8010):
"We came under heavy automatic weapons fire again from the library area...."
and
"They were informed that multiple suspects were in possession of automatic weapons."
10) DPD Officer Pedigo:
"Dispatch advised automatic gun fire with students shot."
11) Denver Metro SWAT Officer Harry Bloodworth(8337): Hears shots from library or west hallway.
It "...sounded like automatic weapons fire..."
and
"...I thought it was automatic weapons fire but its hard to tell."
12) ACSO Nelson(8802):
"I then heard a burst of automatic weapons fire of 5-10 rounds, a pause, a small burst of 2-3 rounds, a pause, and then a long burst of 10-20 rounds." (It is unclear whether he meant this to be police or suspect fire)
13) Makai Hall(8888 ):
"...Dylan had a shotgun and he also had, what he described as a hand-held assault gun similar to an UZI, which he believed was possibly fully automatic but he wasn't certain.... he felt the rounds were so fast that it made him believe it was a auto handgun."
14) Peggy Dodd, teacher(8896):
"Peggy stated that the shots she heard were very fast, as if they had come from a 'machine gun.' She stated she remembers thinking that these guys had machine guns."
15) Pat McDuffy, loose-lipped TCMer(10786): Says Perry was at the school with an automatic gun downstairs by a door shooting outside.
[Note: I have attempted to include in this list only those references that referred to possible automatic fire by the suspects. Other references in the 11K refer to automatic fire by a few of the first responders( O'Shea, Manwaring, etc.) but are not included here.]
There is no evidence that the Tec-9 or the Hi-Point rifle were illegally modified to fire in the "rock and roll" mode.
Thus the above eye- and ear- witnesses, if correct, point to a fifth weapon and hence a third suspect. But we already knew that, didn't we? So this post is just another nail in the coffin of the official story.
Can you spell- 'AK' ? (or more likely 'SKS', the Chinese-made version sold here in the US)
----------------------------
"Let the Truth be out, and let the chips fall where they may"
randy
(8/5/02 9:38 pm)
sorry, there was no sound on the videos.
any sound you heard was dubbed in as special effects.
in addition, the comment abou police only shooting at specific targets is one of the major points.
these police fired at no targets or at unidentified targets. they fired into locked rooms in the library. they fired down the main hall of the school at nothing. this was cover fire to protect themselves.
let me be very clear. gardner apparently fired at eric and dylan. the denver swat team members fired at nothing. nothing.
they had no targets. they had no shooters in their sights. they fired to protect themselves.
facts. facts.
it is in the testimony and in the ballistics evidence.
don't forget, according to the jeffco timeline, eric and dylan were dead when many of the swat rounds were fired.
denver swat fired into the library, the north library door, the window of the library that looked into a closed room, the main hall of the school, and into the wall of the building.
in the one supported situation where eric and dylan did actually exchange gunfire with denver swat, the swat team members fired into the windows of the library without having eric and dylan as targets.
why do you think the police have kept this secret for so long. training failed. officer safety was a priority.
the children did not matter.
if they did, why would you fire your automatic weapon into a school with no identified target. why would you lay down cover fire to protect yourself into a school full of innocent children.
randy
Catnip20
Thank you Randy for clearing that up. That is actually pretty disgusting that they would put sound effects on the video, the terror on their faces was bad enough, fake sounds of panic did not need to be added.
starviego
(8/6/02 7:51 pm)
Nesta: Good point about the Tec-9 being uncontrollable at full auto. If it had a nasty upward kick to begin with, this may explain why so many bullets wound up in the ceiling, and why there were so few casualties where auto fire was thought to have been used(outside, hallway, library). It may also explain why witnesses reported the Tec-9 being gripped with two hands at times.
Kestrel: That number of bullets from the Final Report sounds way low for both parties, but that's just my gut instinct.
Catnip: Where is FQ's Library Alarm Archived post located at?
Randy: What is your source for there being no sound on the video? If the sound was "dubbed in", then you essentially have 'journalists' making up the evidence(because that's what it was presented as). Or maybe the sound track was legit and the video was "dubbed in as special effect". Who knows?
As far as any police fire post-12:08, the only reference I have come acroos is 4 "shock/lock" shotgun rounds being fired intermittantly at door locks. None of the interviews with those police who admit to dicharging firearms referred to firing after 12:08. They fired a bunch of rounds during the rescue of Castaldo and they fired more while rescueing Hochalter, Graves, and Kirklin. Did they fire any during the rescue of Ireland at about 2:30?
However, I have read media accounts of firing occurring throughout the afternoon. Is that your source?
"The Truth is out there"
hi,
the police fired when they brought the fire truck up to the sw doors to extract rachel and richie.
this was, from memory, approximately 12:30 or later.
i would have to look the times up, but many rounds were fired after eric and dylan were reportedly dead.
quite embarassing for the swat team, don't you think.
this would be a fascinating line of research.
when did they fire?
were eric and dylan alive?
i will have to work on this.
randy
ps. the research and depth of knowledge on the subjects you have researched is excellent.
i wish i could get you all the el paso files and the cbi files and more. i must admit to being a little overwhelmed at this point with all of the details i have to look up and remember.
LHO
That is somethin I have never understood, what was the SWAT teams fireing at after Harris and klebold were already dead. Is it common practice to lay down cover fire when you are not being fired upon?
Someday Soon We Will All Know the truth
LHO
The library alarm post is Archive 4 page 3, about 12 down, 3rd thread. Titled: FactQuest/Knowledgeware.
starviego Re: suppression fire
Randy,
You might start with a list of 12 officers who fired weapons(or at least admit that they did) on pg8314. I don't think any of them own up to any weapons fire after about 12:15. Also, I think the rescues at the west doors and outside the cafeteria went on from about 11:50 to 12:30(can't fiond my reference, though).
LHO,
Is is NOT common practice for police to lay down cover fire, especially in a building full of kids. That's just common sense. All the suppression fire admitted to was at a particular target or was in response to fire directed at them from the building. At least that's what the 11K says.
What's interesting is that independent sources(from the media) said that gunfire was heard "long into the afternoon"(I'll have to find that cite) or words to that effect, which sheriff's spokepeople explained by saying it was 'cover fire.' But if all firing was done in respone to a clear and present danger from the suspects, as the 11K seems to say(4 shock/lock rounds excluded), why not just deny that there had been any rounds fired after 12:08 or so? The cops would have known that the school was more or less devoid of gunfire after a certain time- they were best situated to hear anything happening inside, after all! So why not just stick with the truth? The obvious conclusion is that there WERE numerous shots still being fired after H&K died. If so, the reason for this is still a mystery.
Catnip,
Thanks for the followup. Is the time of the fire alarm nailed down? I have a couple of witnesses who say it went off as early as 11:20.
FactQuest Re: suppression fire
Side note. The fire alarm time has been nailed down. I can't find it right now, but iirc it was about 11:30.
Nesta
This has been said about a hundred times.
Cops are trained to recognise targets and only fire at legitimate ones, think about it they are bound by the law, you cant just go around shooting like you're in a paintball game.
So most, if not ALL of the bullets fired by the cops have yet to be explained.
Especially the empty rifle casings found on nearby residents gutters.
Police marksmen, like any "professional" marksmen are not 'supposed' to miss, but more than a few casings were found in the gutters?
Swat teams? Covering fire? What are you joking? how can you explain covering fire in a school? (stray bullets... etc...) with no actual hits? yeah....
it doesnt take a genius but it seems a lot of you guys need a helping hand.
Nesta/Random Suppression fire
See pages 8360 and 8362. Your assumption that cops will only fire at an identified target does NOT seem to be correct.
Nesta/Random Suppression fire
That's exactly the point, it's obvious that they fired a lot of shots and didn't seem to hit anything (eg - Eric or Dylan).
Cops are not trained to just fire at random. I'm not saying that cops don't do stupid things like this, I'm just saying they are not supposed to. Especially that amount of them all at the same time.
randy why?
why?
because it is denver swat policy.
a fact.
cover fire to protect an officer is acceptable procedure.
police safety first.
wouldn't it be nice to know this kind of thing about your swat team.
is this the policy in your state or city?
you cannot find out, unless you can get a copy of their policy and procedure manual. they will state that the officers will be endangered by your knowledge of swat procedure. in truth, your children may be endangered by your lack of knowledge of swat procedure.
who is looking out for the safety of your children?
if this is the swat policy in your city, the police are not.
in denver, it is ok to fire your weapon as cover fire for self protection. even into a school full of innocent children.
one of the real lessons of columbine.
randy
kestrel Suppression Fire
I agree with Randy-JeffCo/LE did shoot at no targets at all at some points. If you read pages 8360 and 8362, you will see that blind suppression fire-with no target-was their policy. And although I can't provide refs, that also seems clear from the evidence logs. LE shot into the library from the NW door numerous times, long after H & K were last seen, long after H & K last returned fire, and long after H & K were (supposedly) dead. It wasn't because they saw-or thought they saw-perpretators. It was because they wanted to make sure no one shot back.
I kind of see this as a military response-we've taken fire, we might come under fire, so if we need to cover someone, we'll shoot. Who cares if we actually shoot at someone? Just shoot at the tree line, and we might kill some gooks/dinks/krauts/Japs who might be still alive and try to kill us. At least we'll keep their heads down.
[Disclaimer: I don't see such a response as being appropriate at Columbine. But it is a response that has been used overseas in war, and perhaps at home at places like Ruby Ridge, Waco, and Columbine.]
starviego Suppression Fire
Pxine,
Post 12:08, LE only mentions a bomb blast at 10pm or so as they attempted to move a bunch of them into an evidence trailer. Also, allegedly only one of the timed devices worked as planned--the South Wadsworth diversionary bomb, so the shots heard later could not have been bombs. Although, they could have been small bombs: firecrackers! While waiting to be rescued, Brandi Wiseman(4751) was told SWAT would be using devices(some type of explosive)
"that would sound like a firecracker or gunshots to clear the building to make sure the suspects weren't in there."
Also, LE had a very good idea early on that there were 3 or more assailants. Even after the building was officially cleared at 4pm or so, they sent SWAT teams in looking for more suspects.
Kestel,
Thanks for the page reference, but I'm with Nesta on this one: the thought of all those cops frantically firing at nothing strikes a false note with me. My gut feeling is that they're covering up something here--like they saw suspects in the hallway or cafeteria and engaged them in a firefight, or that they gunned down innocent bystanders. Brandi Wiseman, again, said that she
"heard possible firefight between SWAT and suspects(between 1:15 and 1:30pm, by my reckoning). 'She said that they then heard what she thought was the SWAT team engaging in gunfire with the suspects and a yelling at them to get down.' "
A few other students seeking shelter with the DePew group in the kitchen storage room also heard that the SWAT teams would be using 'covering fire' during the rescue. See Slater(4435), Wilson(4730), Wiseman(4751), and Dewlaney(2854). Oddlly enough, though, neither DePew nor the policeman he was on the phone with(DPDO Lietz) mention anything about cover fire.
"The Truth is out there"
