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Hmm interesting thoughts...foreknowledge, did others know? did they not really believe it ? were they in the same state of hopelessness that many are in certain stages of life? I think I have told this story before here, so sorry if this is a repeat.

When I was 19, having been out of high school for a year, I dropped out of the junior college I was attending ( well actually I just never went). My parents and I were not getting along at all, I was experimenting with drugs and drinking way too much alcohol, had recently lost my virginity and was having sex often with out any discrimination. I was unhappy, felt hopeless and very alone all the time. At least when I remember those days thats what I see now. At the time I thought I was doing great. giggle what did I know?

I had a very tight group of friends...my best friends boyfriend at the time was homeless and living with another friend in an old VW bus, so it was basically the 4 of us trying to survive. We used to sneak food from our parents homes and bring it to them so they could eat. There were about 5 other people that we were tight with, the kind of friends that you would do ANYTHING for, even if it harmful. So I was 19, my best friend was 16, and they rest ranged from 16-25 years old. We had one friend that was a 14 year old emancipated minor. His parents were heroine addicts and he often stayed with our friends in the bus.

One night he came to us and said that he was going to die tomorrow, because his best friend had committed suicide a year ago and he and my friend had a pact that exactly 1 year to that date he would meet his friend in hell. He was going to commit suicide. Now we all knew this was not right. But in our minds. Filled with drama, depression, drugs, alcohol and rebellion it made complete sense. We spent the whole night with him talking and celebrating his life and even taking down a sort of history so that his story would not be forgotten. When the sun rose...we all cried and held each other and said goodbye. Then we left him alone in a parking lot with a loaded gun.

When we didnt hear anything in the papers (not that we were really looking all that hard) it seemed to confirm everything we had been saying about society and people in general. I mean he was just a street kid with no family, the kind of person society would let fall between the cracks, let down and then sweep his death under some rug so they didnt have to face the fact that they were responsible.

Thankfully he turned up about 3 months later, saying that he couldnt do it and swearing us all to secrecy. I still have the history and story of his life some where in my scrap book/ Diary along with beer tabs, condom wrappers and tattered pieces of the curtains that hung in that VW buss windows.
I realize now that something was terribly wrong with us, somehow I had gotten so low and messed up that it all seemed ok. He did have this magnetic personality that was almost manipulative. At the time I would have believed almost anything certain people told me. Kinda like Mansons followers, I was pliable and so lost. Thank God I did meet anyone truly evil during that time or I could have been convinced to do almost anything.

So when we say foreknowledgeit is possible that some were as pliable as I, and Eric and Dylan were said to have a manipulating, magnetic, convincing personalities. The kind that draws you in and can make you believe any thing is right. Of course as the weeks passes we all questioned what we thought we had allowed to happen, but one of us would always justify it and they others would just go along. That was much easier then facing how messed up we really were.

So I do believe that some could have known, every part of the plan, and maybe some still believe and are convinced by whatever Eric and Dylan said. I mean except for that scrap book diary I havent talked of that night 17 years ago very often. I only know a few of the friends that I was so tight with then, and we never talk about it. In fact we dont like to see each other now because it was just such a messed up time.

I dont believe Eric or Dylan would have told anyone who would have taken it as a jokethey were very serious about what they were going to do, they believed in it and never would have allowed someone to think it was a joking matter. This had a very tragic ending and if they had sucked some in with them and left some behind with actual knowledge I dont know if they will ever come forward. Partially out of shame and partially out of being held responsible. I know I would have held my self responsible if my friend had actually killed himself that day. I would have denied it and suppressed it, justified it and then just drowned it out with any drug or escape I could have. It would have taken me years to get over it once I realized what I had done. If this is the case I dont think enough time has passed yet. But I bet if you look at some of their close friends, the ones we speculate about involvement. If we were to know what and where they are now, you may see signs of that escapism. But then they could just be escaping the tragedy itself.

Sorry this when on so long, but I wanted to really point out that yes, people can be convinced of the craziest things. It does happen and I think that may be what happened here.

Cheyenne

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Sv, just let me start out by saying that I think you are doing a great job. You are not only raising issues, but, more importantly, providing lots of evidence/references. You seem to be one of the few-if not only-poster here to raise questions with some evidentiary basis.

Prior knowledge or prior belief? Certainly, some TCM'ers heard H and K make statements like, "Wouldn't it be fun to shoot out the windows [of CHS]?" Did anyone actually believe them? Obviously, in retrospect, they should have. I know that when I was a kid (like 30 years ago), it was NOT unusual for someone to tell me, "I'm going to kill you!" Parents, siblings, friends, have all said this to me; and I to them. But I never believed it; neither did anyone else, and no one ever killed anyone.

H & K mention, in the "basement videos", foreshadowing. They hinted at what they might do, but no one really seemed to believe them.

This is my own personal opinion, and I can't provide a lot of refs/evidence to back me up.

I'm not even sure that Dylan and Eric really believed they were going to do Columbine until they actually did it. Eric might have been convinced; I'm not sure Dylan was. I kinda see him as going along with a "game", wanting to pretend it was going to happen, but not really believing it would. Probably most have us have been in a position where something was planned, but we kept saying to ourselves, "Am I really going to go through with this?" It could be anything from walking down the aisle to get married, to starting our own business, to committing suicide, to robbing a bank, to having children.While you're about to do something like this, you ask yourself, "Am I really going to go through with this?" Sometimes, people don't. I think Dylan was thinking this way, at least until the library.

For what it's worth, according to the official report, Dylan shot 4 shots outside (and as someone else has pointed out, mainly to finish off those already wounded). He shoot numerous shots down the main East-West hallway as many students were fleeing, but only managed to hit one student, in the ankle. Was Dylan really trying? Did he really believe that what happened on 4/20 would happen, until it started to happen? I myself don't think so.

And if Dylan really didn't think it would happen, why would anyone else?

Just my 2 cents worth, even when adjusted for inflation.

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An update on references that indicate some degree of foreknowledge:




-FBI file, page 6
A 4-21-99 report refers to an online chat by an unknown white female with two unkown individuals on the "Bob Enyart Live" chatroom conducted at 10pm on 4-19. (Redacted screen name) made statements to the effect that something bad was going to happen in Colorado or North Carolina on April 20, 1999. (Redacted) further made references to the holocaust, Adolph Hitler's birthday and a fire.

-FBI file, page 79
An unknown passenger on a Minnesota-bound train on 4-15-99 notices an unknown male in the smoking car who is wearing a trenchcoat and who spoke German on occassion. She heard him say to no one in particular "Something big is going to happen."


-Michael Johnson(EP 23-20)
"Johnson and his mother have subsequently heard that a janitor at Dutch Creek Elementary had encountered Harris in the elementary school on 4-19, and that Harris had told him to watch the news tomorrow." (Note: What was Harris doing at this elementary school, if indeed he was there?)

"Johnson's mother was told by Georgine Payne that on 4-20, during the incident, she was at King Soopers and observed several female students on a pay telephone and overheard one of them say that they hoped that they did not wreck their plans since they had been working on it for so long."


-CBS( www.atheists.org/flash.line/colo4.htm )
"CBS has announced that it was pulling an episode of "Promised Land" because the plot involved a shooting in front of a Denver School." (Note: I'm not suggesting that CBS had foreknowledge, but it's still weird.)



--The School District

-Jeni LaPlante(Time.com for 4-21-99)
"What I just heard on the news is that two weeks ago they all went to a special training session on crisis management."

-Daryll Strahl(Jen's mother)
"I think the school district has done an awesome job. When confronted with this crisis, their teacher knew what to do. Their crisis training that they just had enabled them to save a bunch of kids' lives yesterday.

Comment: I haven't heard too much about this 'crisis training' on the part of CHS. Are they deliberately trying to downplay this as it would lead to more questions: 1) was it just good fortune that the teachers had just had this training?--yet another Columbine coincidence? 2) what was the exact nature of this training? Was it anything like the following, descibed by the Organization of School Psychologists:

"Several school systems have enacted elaborate and very realistic crisis drills where local police storm schools and disarm students who are armed with fake weapons and dressed in camoflage. Many of these drills have involved simulated blood and firing of weapons loaded with blanks." ?

see www.nasponline.org/public...afety.html

Were memories of a prior 'crisis' drill what Nathan Epling(795) was referring to when he said:
"He first thought it was some kind of paint ball incident related to some kind of an evacuation exercise."

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